When his 10 yr outdated daughter was upset by destructive feedback posted about her art work, Hovhannes Avoyan determined to do one thing about it. Virtually a decade later, over 1 billion app downloads and 150 million energetic month-to-month, PicsArt has turn out to be a world motion.
Earlier than founding PicsArt, Hovhannes Avoyan was already a profitable entrepreneur with 5 startups that he offered to Lycos, Bertelsmann, GFI, TeamViewer, and HelpSystems. With a robust understanding of the market, scaling, and what it takes to construct a viable enterprise, it’s no marvel that PicsArt raised over $45m capital and now boasts partnerships with the world’s greatest influencers like Kim Kardashian.
On this inspiring interview hosted by Nathan Chan, Avoyan discusses the significance of making a secure area for inventive expression, why neighborhood issues for a enterprise, the way forward for AI and its place in design and artwork, and why he believes failure is a part of success.
Nathan: The primary query that I ask everybody that comes on is how did you get your job?
Hovhannes: That’s an excellent query. I don’t see it as a job, it’s extra half job, half life for me. PicsArt is part of my life, it’s not a job. I don’t see it as a job anymore. It began 10 years in the past. Earlier than PicsArt, I constructed a number of different corporations and offered them, so PicsArt is my fifth firm. Extra so, the businesses earlier than PicsArt, I begin as a enterprise as a result of I wish to construct a product or know-how to unravel individuals’s downside. And this time, I begin fixing my very own downside, my family downside so to say.
What occurred, the story is that I used to be promoting one among my earlier corporations and stroll dwelling and see my daughter crying, and she or he was 10 years outdated. What occurred, she shared one among her footage, drawings, on the web and get nasty, combative feedback, individuals have been criticising her work. She was fairly shocked and she or he misplaced her confidence and was questioning, “Is it actually that dangerous? Is that why individuals are actually criticising my work?” As a father, I really feel a ache and I wish to create an encouragement for her not to surrender, and keep inventive, and do that artist work. As a result of I’ve my very own story, I missed this chance the place I didn’t get sufficient encouragement once I was 14 and I utilized to artwork college and acquired rejected. I don’t need her to be in the identical sort of state of affairs. I used to be considering what a father can do, and an entrepreneur father would construct an organization round that.
So my response was to construct a product which permits individuals like her to be inventive and never solely create on the go utilizing the machine which is all the time with you, but additionally be in a optimistic surroundings the place you could possibly speak with different creatives, individuals related such as you, you get encouragement, you get inspiration and also you share with different individuals. It’s a neighborhood the place you not solely create, but additionally you share as you create and that’s an necessary a part of the mission we’re on.
That’s why I see it’s no extra like a job, I see it’s extra like a mission for me. And, constructing a product which helps individuals, particularly the brand new artists, to achieve extra confidence and acquire extra abilities, and in the end construct the arrogance to name themself a creator or artist. That’s the way it began, and I actually take pleasure in each minute of this mission.
Nathan: From my analysis right here, it says you may have over 150 million customers. When did you begin PicsArt?
Hovhannes: Yeah, the PicsArt begin in 2011, 2012 to be exact. Late 2011, however extra appropriate 2012 when it began, we went with the primary model of product launched round that point. Yeah, it’s 9 years, or eight years.
Nathan: Wow. I’m curious, you began 5 corporations earlier than, all profitable acquisitions. Considered one of them TeamViewer?
Hovhannes: Properly, TeamViewer acquired my firm, it’s not my firm. TeamViewer acquired, I offered to TeamViewer.
Nathan: Ah, gotcha, you offered to TeamViewer. I’m curious, if you created PicsArt, you mentioned that you simply have been fixing your daughter’s downside. However, how do you know that you could possibly flip this right into a viable enterprise mannequin?
Hovhannes: Yeah. If you end up fixing your downside, or an issue for individuals you already know, and I do know that my daughter will not be alone. I feel she’s not distinctive, there are a lot of individuals like her, a brand new era of individuals which draw with cellular and will [inaudible] their hand, it’s quite common for individuals to inform their visible story. I actually realised it’s a very big market, and there’s an enormous want for these sort of issues. If we’ve this downside in our household, I believed there are different fathers or dad and mom that really feel the identical ache, they usually need their youngsters to be inventive, they usually need their youngsters to be designers, photographers, artists. It’s a quite common and common want. That’s what offers me the arrogance that we’re on one thing.
After which, we see in our preliminary [inaudible], once we launched the merchandise and we see how shortly we begin getting our customers, and the way loyal these customers turned over a yr, that provides us much more confidence.
Nathan: I see. And, relating to the way forward for social media, the place do you see it going? And, synthetic intelligence?
Hovhannes: Yeah, we didn’t take into consideration PicsArt as a social media platform, we’re extra like a creation platform. We do have a social ingredient, we do have a neighborhood and content material created by our customers, nevertheless it’s all about how we are able to empower customers to create, how we are able to empower everybody to create, how we are able to decrease limitations to entry for everybody. The period is enjoying a very necessary function right here. The [inaudible], it’s making the creativity a lot simpler as a result of it’s automated, it’s changing a way. You don’t ever spend years to run totally different strategies as a result of AI can actually do these sorts of issues for you, however there you may play together with your creativeness and you’ll create extra designs with out even abilities for working, with out drawing abilities or portray abilities. With AI, all this stuff, your design might look as one thing that was performed by an expert artist or designer, and we are able to even make your portrait to appear to be a Van Gogh portray through the use of AI.
That is the issues which allow individuals to precise themselves and don’t be afraid of missing the talents or missing the strategy of the standard creation.
Nathan: I see. In the case of your person base, 150 million energetic customers each month, that’s rather a lot. What has been the important thing to rising that measurement person base?
Hovhannes: To begin with, you might want to construct an excellent product, after all, and a product that individuals love and use virtually every day. It’s necessary not solely to simply to deliver customers to the product, but additionally to retain these customers, so make a product which can … sticky. It’s required. It’s a each day use product. It’s not simply in a … you make and large a lot of customers, and tomorrow they cease utilizing your product and go someplace else. It’s not solely simply bringing in customers, however conserving these customers, so retaining these customers. That’s why you present sufficient depth that you’ve got so individuals can discover even new issues and are going to make use of it for a really very long time. They nonetheless can use new options, new instruments, new attention-grabbing use case they by no means thought.
Second factor is the community impact we’re creating throughout the app. Due to your neighborhood ingredient and the [inaudible] of our neighborhood, customers are coming to PicsArt not simply due to instruments but additionally due to the neighborhood and due to the arrogance they’ll discover solely inside PicsArt and construct this confidence to create their very own design. That create a viral sort of group, and other people begin bringing their mates and households to PicsArt and [inaudible] is a giant driver for our progress.
Most of our …, these are taking place organically. We aren’t actually paying for paid advertising and marketing to get these customers.
Nathan: You discuss paid advertising and marketing; Kim Kardashian is one among your primary influencers that you simply work with.
Hovhannes: I wouldn’t name it primary influencers. She’s most likely one of many greatest influencers, sure. …the primary influencer. We see we’re working with many influencers and micro influencers, and it’s much more environment friendly in the long term as a result of with working with one huge movie star, you may …, however in our scale it doesn’t make big distinction. If you end up small it makes a distinction, however we’re huge. It’s not one thing which is a large [inaudible] for us.
It’s extra like working throughout totally different channels, like extra… It’s typically extra environment friendly to work with many micro influencers or a mid-level influencer than with one huge movie star. In fact, it doesn’t damage to have the massive celebrities, after all, however we’re seeing for our advertising and marketing, it’s higher to actually take into consideration scale, not a single spike.
Nathan: Attention-grabbing. What number of influencers do you’re employed with?
Hovhannes: It’s onerous to say, however I might say there are most likely in 1000’s. Now we have 1,000 additionally influencers inside PicsArt which can be working with us. We name the VIP programme earlier than, and now we’re altering it. Now we have 1,000 influencers inside PicsArt which have already affect inside PicsArt. They’ve [inaudible], and many others., and we’re working with them as part of our neighborhood effort, however we’re working with different influencers in different international locations. In several international locations we’ve totally different influencers.
In lots of instances we’re not actually paying anybody. We do both collaborations or partnerships and we cross promote. We do drawing instruction or one thing. Most of their lessons are doing this organically as a result of they love our product they usually simply unfold the phrase with out being financially rewarded. There are relationships.
Nathan: Wow, that’s attention-grabbing. You mentioned you’ve been working with 1000’s, over 1,000. It’s not typically… Would you guys take into account your self, yeah, you guys are a tech product, proper? It’s not typically. Normally influencers are greatest used from a direct to client bodily product, model. I’d love to listen to. Normally relating to software program, individuals don’t actually use influencers that a lot.
Hovhannes: There are a class of influences that are offering two factors, the primary about, okay, the right way to use, for instance, PicsArt to create a sneaker or the right way to make no matter, dipping impact on PicsArt or some stylish stuff. Then they’ll then get a viral marketing campaign round a sure image or pattern, so on [inaudible] there are a lot of influencer that are sharing for us about how to do that with PicsArt, the right way to create a emblem with PicsArt, the right way to create a enterprise card with PicsArt, the right way to create a greeting card, the right way to create a selfie impact, the right way to create a sketch with PicsArt.
You may go and see in TikTok. Now we have tens of millions of individuals, followers. In fact the hashtag PicsArt has tens of millions and tens of millions of views, and tens of millions of tens of millions of individuals are actually liking and utilizing this content material and creating this content material. It very stunning. There are many [inaudible] created by our customers, tens of millions of views about how to do that, cool issues utilizing PicsArt.
It’s very natural. We’re discovering definitely one and one other influencer utilizing PicsArt. Then she’s posting her tutorial. Then we’re approaching her and providing some collaborations, issues like that. As I mentioned, it’s very natural. It’s not like going out or one thing and paying.
They’re additionally utilizing PicsArt for his or her posts, a lot of them, utilizing PicsArt for his or her posts, so principally the one different product. It’s not like a random software program no person use. It’s the model of the software program influencers use. Increasingly more as of late they create very engaging movies or footage for his or her Instagram or … or different accounts.
Nathan: I see. It feels like one of many greatest drivers, primary drivers for progress and the person base is the community results and simply constructing a very, actually nice product that’s inherently sharable. If we delve a bit deeper, lots of people that may be listening, watching, they wish to construct an excellent product. They wish to construct one thing that individuals care about. They wish to construct a product that solves a very robust downside. What did the primary yr of product growth appear to be for PicsArt? Has the product modified rather a lot and advanced over time? Or did you get fortunate? What did that appear to be?
Hovhannes: In fact, if you begin constructing product, constructing good product will not be sufficient. It is advisable determine what’s your channel, the way you’re going to get your customers, and how one can get your customers to care. Usually it is best to take into consideration what sort of unfair benefit you may acquire a technique or one other. It may very well be an unfair benefit of entry to know-how, like no person can have this know-how, or entry to the channel, which no person can get the identical entry such as you. Discovering the unfair benefit is a giant a part of enterprise startup.
For us, I can simply offer you an instance of how we began and one of many good [inaudible] we’ve. Once we began in early 2010-11-12, it nonetheless is simply as important at this time. A lot of the builders suppose iPhone first they usually begin constructing one thing for iPhone and ignoring Android. You find yourself with high competitors on iPhone, and Android is a leftover place the place individuals, actually they’ve sources. They actually don’t care about Android.
We began Android first, and for first couple of years we’ve solely been doing Android for different causes as nicely, not essentially simply [inaudible], nevertheless it offers us and benefit of being robust in a market the place no positively rivals existed in that area, and likewise we additionally carried out some progress climbing strategies, as a result of exploit early and alternative within the platform.
For instance, Android has a characteristic known as latest apps. It existed again at the moment, however not now. They closed this loop. They handed it into the apps, that are only recently launched or [inaudible], and we determine it can launch our replace on Friday midnight. We’ll get on high of the chart, and it’ll keep there for at the very least every week. It created a rule. Every time a launch, each week, midnight, and simply get to the highest of this chart and get a lot of new customers.
It has created one other impact. We have been working onerous and keep right here 24 hours to make this deadline, however with this cadence, we created expectations with our customers, so our customers begin anticipating what is occurring subsequent week. Each week we simply give them one other enhancement or device or characteristic. Principally these items they’re anticipating introduced it subsequent, and that create one other loyalty. Folks begin changing into extra loyal to our app and began it extra regularly, after which began inviting their mates to make use of the app as nicely.
That actually helped us get preliminary traction on Android. Once we switched to iPhone, then the outgrowth was a lot sooner as a result of there are individuals in household utilizing, additionally in a half iPhone and Android, or individuals switching from Android to iPhone. Really we might deliver the … over to iPhone simply utilizing Android as a base. That was actually an excellent technique for us.
If you happen to’re actually constructing a startup, you may take into consideration how you could find this type of unfair benefit a technique or one other to do one thing in a different way than the remainder of the market or the remainder of the competitors.
Nathan: I see. That was some nice recommendation. You guys have raised over 45 million in enterprise capital?
Hovhannes: Yeah, most likely somewhat bit greater than that, however sure, giant monies.
Nathan: When did you increase your first spherical?
Hovhannes: We raised first spherical in 2015, and it was Sequoia first, and primary investor is Sequoia. This is without doubt one of the greatest traders I had. We get large worth from this firm, from this agency. It’s greater than cash. We get initially once we’re sharing our numbers to the press and no person is believing our numbers, we’re younger firm at the moment and we have already got a big progress, however no person was believing us. Once we acquired Sequoia as investor, it was like … like a standup group of success, after which we immediately get extra curiosity from journalists, different traders, companions, and many others. That was a vital funding for us, however extra necessary, I feel, the standard of companions, the standard of workers, the environment, the very pro-founder …. tradition of the agency. It’s actually serving to to develop and mature as an organisation. Yeah, I used to be fairly fortunate to get Sequoia as my first investor.
Nathan: Superior. In the case of elevating capital, if in case you have beforehand 5 exits beforehand, I’m curious why not self-fund?
Hovhannes: We do self-fund. We began, we raised from Sequoia once we have been worthwhile. In a self-fund, you increase up the corporate for 3 or 4 years earlier than we get Sequoia. We have been already worthwhile and we have been on a quick progress trajectory. That’s why we’re not elevating cash, however we’re… My objective was to get a high quality accomplice, not simply an investor. That’s why the borrow is fairly excessive, and that’s why we get… We’re solely speaking with tier one traders at that stage, and as quickly as we get the Sequoia, I couldn’t actually focus on the time period sheet as a result of that was my objective, to get Sequoia on my board. That was the objective, and as I mentioned, it’s greater than cash.
Nathan: I see. It’s extra round recommendation, entry to networks, entry to, yeah, I suppose enjoying at an entire nother stage and a type of validity of the product and the expansion and stuff like that, proper?
Hovhannes: Proper. Sequoia’s investing. They’re are [inaudible] that they imagine this firm goes to be a billion greenback firm in time. Then all people understands and is taking us severely. Principally it’s serving to us to get extra popularity and affect and it helps if you [inaudible] negotiations and prices.
Nathan: I see. You guys have places of work in over 5 international locations. The place are your places of work?
Hovhannes: Now we have places of work in Europe and we’ve workplace in San Francisco. Our headquarters is in San Francisco the place I’m positioned now. Now we have a big enterprise administration right here, but additionally we’ve workplace in Beijing, China. Now we have workplace in Tokyo.
Nathan: I see. I’m all the time curious. How come you arrange places of work in sure places? Was that due to expertise? Was that since you want individuals on the bottom? I might suppose an organization like PicsArt, you could possibly run simply out of San Fran, proper?
Hovhannes: Sure, completely, particularly as of late with the COVID and all people distant. Individuals are distant as of late so it doesn’t actually matter the place they’re. Additionally they’ve good connection and they’re in an excellent time zone. That actually change our whole course of. We begin trying globally. Nonetheless we have an interest to seek out individuals in related time zones as a result of time zone may very well be a giant situation, however location turned much less and fewer necessary.
We simply rent very senior particular person in Scotland. Perhaps we are able to construct some workplace there if we are able to discover expertise. We truly rent expertise the place we are able to discover the expertise. It’s much less about location and it’s extra about the place we are able to discover the expertise. We have to continue to grow. We have to rent extra engineers, extra AI most likely, extra product individuals, design, content material, no matter. That’s why we’re in search of extra alternatives to develop in several places, and likewise doing different hiring too. We are also buying different corporations. We did a small purchase in ……, however not …… buying, acquisition. We’re all of this.
Nathan: I’d love to know when it come to, I suppose, constructing the primary model, the MVP of the PicsArt product, how huge was the staff? What did the founding staff appear to be? What was the construction? How do you know you have been onto one thing within the early days?
Hovhannes: We have been sort of huge, not small. Perhaps I feel the preliminary group have been roughly 5 to seven individuals. We have been constructing different issues, not simply the PicsArt once we began, so we additionally have been attempting to do different apps. I imagine that group was seven, possibly then turned 10, 12, and simply continue to grow. Now we’re 600.
Nathan: Loopy. There was about seven individuals primarily builders?
Hovhannes: Yeah, it was primarily builders. We don’t have anybody like even graphic designer, or possibly we discover some in the end, however initially it was possibly half time designer and principally engineers, so solely builders and no product administration, no advertising and marketing, purely engineering. It’s nonetheless very a lot an engineering pushed firm.
Nathan: What’s your skillset? What’s your superpower?
Hovhannes: They’re overlapping, however I might suppose AI again within the ’90s, and I drop my PhD, begin my [inaudible], the startup at the moment. It was an attention-grabbing expertise doing AI on a mainframe, a giant, huge pc, the dimensions of the pc was the dimensions of three bed room house. The method occurred, possibly it was lower than my [inaudible] that I’ve at this time, or [inaudible] silly machine that you’ve got, most likely this machine, a toy you may have or no matter, is… The storage was like 10 megabyte. It was measurement of this, as huge as this desk, with 10 megabyte storage. You possibly can solely maintain possibly two or three photos to those iPhones.
With the problem with all these {hardware} and storage limitations, [inaudible] we have been interested in AI. My math challenge was doing a algorithm which might allow us to play chess, and clearly that failed. For years it was thought-about a useless science, sort of like purely educational, all sort of analysis with none sensible implementation, virtually like historical languages sort of analysis. For years it was very unpopular factor. You recognize the final 5 years is a renaissance of AI. Every part is AI as of late. If you wish to impress somebody, you say AI. College students go to AI. They wish to do AI challenge. They wish to do machine studying, deep studying, these sort of issues.
Hastily it turned from a very useless science to the most popular factor now. The reason being as a result of the {hardware} and the CPUs and the storage reached the extent to make it very sensible. Right now you may construct in necessary options and put in a tool like this, and it really works like a allure. You don’t must have huge computer systems to do that type of factor.
That is revolutionary. It’s completely revolutionary, and my background in AI actually helps me to know how we are able to use this know-how, what else we are able to do if we maintain main the sting of AI and AI analysis.
Nathan: I see. So your ardour for machine studying, deep studying, that is without doubt one of the unfair benefits you guys have. It lets you keep on the innovative.
Hovhannes: Completely. I really like analysis as a result of I used to be coming from analysis. Analysis gave me a lot of abilities which have been very helpful for my startups and in [inaudible], particularly doing all of the experimental issues. I might do a variety of experimental issues in startups as nicely. I might really feel virtually like a researcher, however yeah, completely. The love for AI and constructing these necessary abilities and knowhow inside PicsArt is one among our core differentiators.
Nathan: I see. Do you continue to code Python?
Hovhannes: Sadly, no, simply do a few paths in JavaScript. I studied programming languages no person makes use of as of late. My first language was [inaudible]. I don’t suppose that individuals even heard about this language. It was common for some time frame, nevertheless it’s performed. Then we do some assembler as nicely, so my early days. I do some Prologue programming. Prologue is an AI language. It’s not well-known language anymore. It was.
Issues actually modified someplace up to now 20, 25 years.
Nathan: You’re off the instruments, actually.
Hovhannes: Yeah. Sure, I can not spend any time on engineering. I’d like to. I actually take pleasure in that. I actually have a ardour of constructing one thing myself. Sadly, I’m, or happily, I spend my time on greater factor. I’m main group of engineers. My engineering background continues to be an necessary a part of why we’re succeeding as a result of I can perceive know-how and I can admire what individuals are doing and the way we are able to construct [inaudible] know-how aspect.
Nathan: I see. Do you may have a co-founder or co-founders?
Hovhannes: Yeah, I do have co-founders. I work with them with my earlier corporations as nicely. They really have been my former college students. I used to lecture on the college as nicely. Not anymore, however they have been, a few of them, my former college students. Many individuals within the firm …….are additionally my former college students.
Nathan: In the case of the management, you’re main the engineering staff and also you’re the CEO.
Hovhannes: Sure, I’m main… I wouldn’t say I’m main the engineering staff anymore, however I’m product staff extra. I actually like to consider product, options, and many others. I’m an addicted person of PicsArt. I’m utilizing PicsArt daily, and as a person, I actually see which options are wanted, which options are necessary. That actually helps to be able the place you perceive your person. I might say many PicsArt engineers and different individuals are also PicsArt customers. They use PicsArt frequently, in order that’s additionally necessary for them to know why they’re doing … necessary to the person.
By the best way, I ought to point out 50% of our PicsArt employees are feminine. In engineering, about 30% feminine. It’s fairly uncommon.
Nathan: Why is that this?
Hovhannes: I don’t know. It simply organically occurred. Particularly in New York we’ve much more feminine engineers and that actually helps to… As a result of I additionally now … on extra feminine as a result of they’re additionally utilizing extra and deeper our product, so that is additionally helps to have extra affinity with our customers and higher perceive their wants and psychology and ….
It’s very natural. Now we have many feminine engineers, managers, on all ranges.
Nathan: Yeah, I see. Attention-grabbing. You’re product visionary. In the case of the product, how typically do you communicate to clients?
Hovhannes: Now we have a person analysis the place they communicate fairly frequently, they usually run some surveys they usually communicate immediately. Now we have neighborhood administration. We additionally work carefully with our greatest customers and our influencers. Now we have totally different teams. There’s a buyer assist group that are working with customers regularly, particularly coping with complaints and points. Additionally we’re our knowledge on a regular basis. It’s one other supply of our understanding, so we’ve … analytics. They’re charting tens of millions of … daily, and [inaudible] to assist us to know what individuals are doing and the way they’re utilizing, to assist all that and the work we are able to do to make their expertise even higher on PicsArt.
Nathan: I see. Then utilizing all of that collectively, that’s how, and also you being an influence person of the device your self, that’s how you’ll kind product roadmap?
Hovhannes: Proper. Now we have a number of sources for concepts and ideation. We do communicate with our clients and customers who use our product and our stuff. Now we have a strategic imaginative and prescient of what we wish to do in the long term. We’re our knowledge to seek out all of the friction factors for customers. Sure, I’m in search of [inaudible] competing product as nicely. There’s one other supply for concepts and a few inspiration. Sure, we do that, after which in the end we put these concepts into dialogue with a bigger group. In a while, we ask our customers, after which prioritise primarily based on what we’ve heard, what we’ve seen, what we’ve analysed. Even when we can not run full scale, we run [inaudible] or check smaller scale options to see if the speculation are proper. If we see there’s an excellent [inaudible] a robust want or one thing, then we put extra sources behind this characteristic.
Nathan: Okay. That is sensible. Attention-grabbing. Look, we’ve to work in direction of wrapping up, aware of your time, however was there any sort of remaining phrases of knowledge that you simply want to share with our viewers round, I suppose, constructing profitable startups. You’ve performed it six occasions now. What do you suppose it takes?
Hovhannes: I might say my necessary recommendation and studying I’ve is be affected person and to not be confused. Startup requires a variety of [inaudible] and issues are going to be going up and down on a regular basis, on a regular basis. I’m by no means able of clean progress. No, no. Crises, and all of the sorts of crises occur. It is advisable be resilient and to not be distressed an excessive amount of, however suppose long run. That’s my considering. That is long-term, not short-term, considering strategically concerning the worth. Then an understanding of all of the ups and down are simply a part of the enterprise. By no means get confused. By no means get too depressed concerning the enterprise is a failure. Failure is part of success, not a … of success.
Nathan: Adore it. The place’s the perfect place individuals can discover out extra about your cellphone PicsArt?
Hovhannes: I imagine there’s a Wikipedia web page about it. There are a selection of articles on background about PicsArt and LinkedIn. I might advocate if individuals actually wish to observe, there’s my web page on LinkedIn and there’s a PicsArt web page on LinkedIn the place we actually submit information and updates. We’re all the time keen on individuals, and they’re welcome to observe us on social media platforms or Twitter. Then we’re already energetic on different social media as a result of they’re actually about information and updates. That might be the perfect supply.
Nathan: Superior. Properly look, thanks a lot to your time, Hovhannes. I actually admire it.
Hovhannes: Thanks very a lot.
